Thoughts About Justice
"...and they had all things common among them, every man dealing justly, one with another." (3 Ne. 26:19)
It occurred to me as I read this this morning that in a world in which everyone dealt justly, there would be little need for mercy - at least in the sense of forgiveness. Sometimes we think of justice as punishment only, but it really includes all actions in harmony with law. If everyone keeps the law, there's no need for enforcement or correction of any kind. Justice reigns.
What does God's mercy do for us anyway? Does it not enable us poor, imperfect beings to overcome weaknesses through repentance and forgiveness and become perfect? But among perfectly just beings, is there need for such mercy? Enoch's praise of the Lord is instructive:
"...naught but peace, justice, and truth is the habitation of thy throne; and mercy shall go before thy face and have no end..." (Moses 7:31)
God's habitation is filled with nothing other than peace, justice, and truth. But mercy goes before his face - or prior to dwelling in his direct presence, perhaps. Up to the point of dwelling with God, endless mercy is requisite. But because no unclean thing can dwell with Him, those in the habitation of his throne are filled only with justice, truth, and peace. Interesting. This makes a good standard for Zion, I think.
How do you interpret these verses? I wonder if we can better understand this together.
It occurred to me as I read this this morning that in a world in which everyone dealt justly, there would be little need for mercy - at least in the sense of forgiveness. Sometimes we think of justice as punishment only, but it really includes all actions in harmony with law. If everyone keeps the law, there's no need for enforcement or correction of any kind. Justice reigns.
What does God's mercy do for us anyway? Does it not enable us poor, imperfect beings to overcome weaknesses through repentance and forgiveness and become perfect? But among perfectly just beings, is there need for such mercy? Enoch's praise of the Lord is instructive:
"...naught but peace, justice, and truth is the habitation of thy throne; and mercy shall go before thy face and have no end..." (Moses 7:31)
God's habitation is filled with nothing other than peace, justice, and truth. But mercy goes before his face - or prior to dwelling in his direct presence, perhaps. Up to the point of dwelling with God, endless mercy is requisite. But because no unclean thing can dwell with Him, those in the habitation of his throne are filled only with justice, truth, and peace. Interesting. This makes a good standard for Zion, I think.
How do you interpret these verses? I wonder if we can better understand this together.
Comments
You get exactly what you deserve, but it's probably better than you expect; thus, you're happy with what you got.
I liken it to poor people who suddenly win the lottery and end up in the doghouse in a couple of years. Maybe they weren't HAPPY with being poor, but obviously they didn't know how to handle being rich and, perhaps made them MORE unhappy. So having their money go away was at once just and merciful.
The actions of perfectly just beings are perfectly justified in the eyes of the law; that is, as you say, Adam, they're actions are in perfect harmony with law. Such persons thus have no need of God's mercy to wipe the slate clean of sin, or, to put it alternately, to pull out all the weeds of mortality.
I have a hard time believing, however, that anyone save Christ has lived without weakness and everyone suffers afflictions to one degree or another. And to overcome weaknesses and suffering, we need God's grace, the extension (quite literally) of his mercy, to fill in the gaps between where we fall short (due to weakness, suffering, imperfection, illness, death, etc., or any of these as they come to us through another's use of agency, that is, things that estrange us from God but that are beyond our control) and where our/his sense of justice requires us to be. Hence, even the perfectly just person---i.e. the person without sin---can only be justified before God through an act of mercy, as extended through the Atonement (which, of course, is the act that allows God to perfectly just and infinitely merciful.
Moving beyond the act of justification (through which all the weeds are pulled out), we require God's mercy to be sanctified, to become as God is, or, to put that alternately, to plant the flowers of Godhood in the soil of our justified personal character. Without mercy it would be impossible for us to ascend to the throne of God, simply because exaltation requires more than simply being free of sin. It requires possessing (and being possessed of) God's glory, which is a function of his character, something that can only come to us through his grace.
Justice and mercy, in their most eternal, deified sense, are thus inseparable attributes; though not the same thing, they work perfectly in concert with each other to justify and sanctify us. And such a union is made possible only through the acts of the At-one-ment. In other words, at this point in our progression, we can only, as Moroni suggests, be perfect---even perfectly just---as we live in a relationship with Christ.
(Oh...brain cramp. Thinking complete.)
You won't get any disagreement from me on any of your points.
MoJo, your example assumes the presence of imperfection and/or sinfuness. Rightfully so. Tyler, your comment also pertains to our mortal condition and the process of transcending it. You appropriately foucs on grace.
Without implying that either of you have missed the point or that your words are irrelevant, I want to say that my first comment was about human interaction - how we relate to each other in Zion, which is what those Nephites had. This is of course guided by divine law, but is not the same thing as how we deal with (an are dealt with by) God.
With the second reference, I was musing about life in God's eternal presence - in a post-exaltation world, so to speak. Not that the role of the Atonement is ever finished, but after we become Gods ourselves, is mercy an active element in our immediate surroundings?I would suggest that, as you both say, mercy is required to bring one to God, but if it is required to remain in His presence, then His forgiveness is at best a temporary, fluctuating thing - not characteristic of the God I worship.
I suppose one might argue that persistent, eternal mercy is required to continuously counteract the eternal consequences of sin, but isn't sin, once repented of, remembered no more as though it had never happened? Are not its consequences thus erased completely, or do they perpetually threaten to break down the doors of even an exalted being?
This whole concept may be renedered moot by the nature of eternity. Words like "continual" and "once" may not have much application in a condition without time. Our understanding of eternity is still textured by our experience with time, but I suspect that this will not always be the case. See? "Always" is another word that may not work the same for deity.
So I may be wrong. Actually, I'm not really asserting any opinion here, just asking questions and giving voice to various thoughts as they occur to me. So I guess it's less about who's right and more about exploring in search of truth.
Anyway, both of your comments have added to my pursuit here, so thanks.
-TG
That means a lot to me. I welcome your comments any time.
Most of the people who comment here I have never met in real life. So until we "met" here (or elsewhere online) we were all complete strangers. So welcome!
Having said that, and in reference to your second reference, I add that there must be a point where our interactions with one another and with God will change. As mortals, the best we can hope for, I think, is to be perfect in Christ. Eventually, however, we'll become perfect as Christ and enter into a different relationship with God (who will have progressed to the next level in his progression), though I'm not sure exactly what that might entail. I imagine, however, that this community of Gods continues to entail just dealings with each other and, of course, with our creations. And though the central purpose of Christ's Atonement will have been fulfilled for us (once we're exalted, we're exalted because all of our choices have built us to that point, making us perfect, first in Christ, then as Christ), from what I understand about the nature of the universe---one eternal round---another act of atonement will be required for us to extend mercy to and to save our children and our creations.
In this light, we'll no longer require mercy, but we'll possess it in its fullness. It must, then, play a part in how gods interact with other gods, perhaps (in conjunction with our perfect love) buffering differences in personality and allowing us to serve together in productive ways. Perhaps...
Don't know if I actually got anywhere with all of this writing, but I just had to assert the relevance of my first comment... ;)
I didn't mean to call your first comment irrelevant. Sorry.
Thanks for the second, though. You've expanded my thinking, particularly with this line:
It must, then, play a part in how gods interact with other gods, perhaps (in conjunction with our perfect love) buffering differences in personality and allowing us to serve together in productive ways.
So point taken - and appreciated.
But still... ;)
Ultimately, if God (ours and the others) cannot violate natural law, then Natural Law becomes the God of gods. And beyond Newton and Einstein, all we really know about natural law is consequences of actions, with no hint of mercy OR justice.
:)
I don't have any qualms about Gods having Gods. Given the generational structure of eternal progression it seems to be at least plausible. However, I don't know that I would define natural law that way. Maybe the environment of the Gods. That's more how I think of it. Plus, I don't think natural law as we think of it (gravity, weather systems, Newtonian physics) is nearly the full extend or highest order of natural law. I personally think that faith may be that order and, as Joseph Smith said, God "has faith in Himself independently" (Lectures on Faith). Priesthood may also come into play here.
But you're right. All bets may be off in this realm.
Have you ever heard/read/sung The Wintry Day Descending to its Close? I'm not sure there is no sign of mercy or justice in natural law.